Have you ever pondered the intricate layers of identity that come with being adopted? Join us as we welcome a special guest to share in the heartfelt exploration of this profound journey, a path marked by discovery, acceptance, and a quest for a sense of self. Together with Lisa and John, we unravel the emotional tapestry that adoptees navigate, from the simplicity of a childhood revelation to the complexities of forming an adoptive identity and the lifelong impact it has on individuals and families.
This episode offers an earnest look into the poignant process of uncovering biological roots, and the delicate balance between curiosity and respect for the bonds of an adoptive family. Our guest brings humor and heartache to the conversation, recounting those late-night rituals with an adoptive mother, the challenge of insensitive comments, and the search for answers that leads to surprising discoveries and new family connections. The intimate accounts shared reveal not just the adoptee’s experience, but also the crucial support systems that provide guidance and reflection along the way.
We close with a candid discussion on the importance of personal closure, gratitude, and the strength found in the stories that shape our lives. Whether adoption touches your life personally, or you're seeking to understand its profound impact, this episode illuminates the powerful narratives that can define a life. Tune in for a conversation that promises to connect, enlighten, and perhaps even offer a sense of closure to those on their own adoption journey.
Music by Curtis Rodgers IG @itsjustcurtis
Produce and Edited by Lisa Sapp
Executive Producer Lisa Sapp
Executive Producer Johnnie Underwood
Tell us your story or leave a comment by following us on
IG soimadoptedpod
FB so.i'm adopted
Youtube SO...I'M ADOPTED
Email soimadopted@gmail.com
Have you ever pondered the intricate layers of identity that come with being adopted? Join us as we welcome a special guest to share in the heartfelt exploration of this profound journey, a path marked by discovery, acceptance, and a quest for a sense of self. Together with Lisa and John, we unravel the emotional tapestry that adoptees navigate, from the simplicity of a childhood revelation to the complexities of forming an adoptive identity and the lifelong impact it has on individuals and families.
This episode offers an earnest look into the poignant process of uncovering biological roots, and the delicate balance between curiosity and respect for the bonds of an adoptive family. Our guest brings humor and heartache to the conversation, recounting those late-night rituals with an adoptive mother, the challenge of insensitive comments, and the search for answers that leads to surprising discoveries and new family connections. The intimate accounts shared reveal not just the adoptee’s experience, but also the crucial support systems that provide guidance and reflection along the way.
We close with a candid discussion on the importance of personal closure, gratitude, and the strength found in the stories that shape our lives. Whether adoption touches your life personally, or you're seeking to understand its profound impact, this episode illuminates the powerful narratives that can define a life. Tune in for a conversation that promises to connect, enlighten, and perhaps even offer a sense of closure to those on their own adoption journey.
Music by Curtis Rodgers IG @itsjustcurtis
Produce and Edited by Lisa Sapp
Executive Producer Lisa Sapp
Executive Producer Johnnie Underwood
Tell us your story or leave a comment by following us on
IG soimadoptedpod
FB so.i'm adopted
Youtube SO...I'M ADOPTED
Email soimadopted@gmail.com
Welcome to the so I'm Adopted podcast, where we talk everything adoption. This journey is not one we take alone. Together we grapple with raw emotions that surface from adoption stories. We want you to be comfortable enough to heal, so sit back and go with us on this journey as we dive deep into adoption.
Speaker 2:So welcome back to so I'm Adopted podcast. This is our second episode. I'm Lisa.
Speaker 1:John.
Speaker 2:And so we are adopted. We wanted to again create a space for adoption, truths to be shared. Even though we both have common, we share commonality, right Commonality. I kind of like hold that. I don't know if that's a word or not. It is a word, okay.
Speaker 1:It's a word tonight anyway.
Speaker 2:So we have that bond but our stories are totally different and we just wanted to give a space to where we, as we talk about our own stories. We wanted people to hear our conversation and eventually be able to share their common you know their stories as well.
Speaker 1:That's interesting because I even think about initially we didn't know that each other were adopted and had this story I know, and it wasn't until Wow.
Speaker 2:Until, actually, I found it that I was adopted.
Speaker 1:But even after you found out, I still didn't know. I remember tightest because you didn't make it like public, public, true, true. You know some tightest account of share with me. When you know Lisa is you need to talk to her and I was like wow, and then that's when you know that started and that was we've known each other.
Speaker 2:Who? How long we've known each other? 17 years, yeah, 17 years, 17 years, okay, 17. I was going over 20. 20.
Speaker 1:But you know, this podcast is where we will hear adoption truth, adoption truths from adoptees, adoptive parents and birth parents and families, the whole family, the whole village. I will also have input from licensed professionals such as psychiatrists, psychology and social workers to get a deeper understanding of the adoption journey. I think these stories and perspectives will give hope, understanding and courage to those who are adopted or even considering adoption, because there's so many different layers to it.
Speaker 1:And along with the journey of acceptance, reconciliation and maintenance of being adopted. Those are the things that we decided are pillars of the journey. Your journey may be different, but you have some level of acceptance when you first find out. Then the reconciliation, of coming to terms with the adoption yes, you know that's not even considering a reconciliation with birth, family and things of that nature. There has to be something internal within you that you reconcile that. You know, this is my truth, this is where I am. And then, once you do that, the maintenance is when you bring the other pieces of the puzzle to the table. So that ultimately makes for a amazing journey. I would curious. I might do some research on any books, because I haven't really looked at any books for adoption. The whole time that I found out and when I started my journey, you know who is telling the story from a standpoint as an adoptee, that it speaks to me. What truths are out there in the book world?
Speaker 2:They're out there. There's quite a few out there actually. I can't think of them on top of my head, but they are out there. But I know that last week we talked about when I found out. Yeah, when did I know?
Speaker 1:And it was interesting is I've heard the story, I know it, but as you were telling it, it gave me deep burn understanding and it painted a different picture and it was almost like I was walking with a camera behind you, given that story. So it really illuminated. So I can only imagine those who heard it for the first time how they were able to envision that journey and the emotional ups and downs or ups and flows too.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, yes, but this week we're going to talk about when did you know? Because you gave us a little nugget last week.
Speaker 1:I did.
Speaker 2:You said that you were a child at the time. I was. So I have a lot of questions, because, as a child, how do you reconcile that in your head? So, john, tell me, when did you know?
Speaker 1:So I remember being outside. We grew up in that age when we played football in the street, right Right. So we were outside playing football and normally we would drink out the water hose or we could go to the various houses in the neighborhood, because we had those community houses and somebody had popsicles for us. Wait, pause for a second.
Speaker 2:I got to get comfortable.
Speaker 1:We had that one neighbor. His mom had popsicles for us, somebody's family. They had beer for us even though we were young, because that's what they did. They would give us a champagne of beers because we'd be outside. Now, mind you, they didn't start doing that until we got older, but that's just the culture of the neighborhood. It was that village. So we're outside playing football in the street and I had to go in the house and use the restaurant and I don't know what the conversation was and I never really asked after the fact. Why that moment? But everything happens for a reason. So I went inside and my mom said come here, john. And I said hey, what's up, mom? She said that I'm going to tell you something. She says you're adopted.
Speaker 2:And just like that.
Speaker 1:Just like that. She was sitting in the kitchen. It was her, my dad and I don't even. It was some other people there, I do not remember who, and I was like okay, and went outside, went right back outside, and I want to say I probably was, maybe seven. I was real young.
Speaker 2:So they just called you in.
Speaker 1:Well, no, they didn't call me and. I just happened to come in the house so I'm not sure if they were having discussions.
Speaker 2:Probably were.
Speaker 1:Maybe somebody was like you might want to tell, because they do it. Next one. And my mom dropped it and, like she kept cutting cord, I was like, okay, I'm going back outside. And I remember after we finished playing, you know, I told my partners office like yo, I'm adopted man, what does that mean? And the first response was you lying. I was like I'm not, we go ask. She just told me that's what they told me. So then that's when the question started for me and it was okay, wait a minute, what does this mean? So, balancing of what I should have did was go back in the house and have the discussion. I'm politicking and talking to nine and 10 year olds.
Speaker 1:So that tells you right there, everything that I got wrong, totally wrong. We had no, and I'm going to tell you how I know it was a bad conversation because I don't remember anything about it. So that tells me that it was not positive. So I remember going back in the house afraid to ask, because now I had this information that was dropped on me, not in a negative manner.
Speaker 2:I didn't know what to do with it.
Speaker 1:And as a seven year old you have no clue of how to process this. But then I think about with that generation as well, because when my parents adopted me they were older In those generations. Certain stuff you just didn't talk about, yeah. You know what I'm saying? You, just like you said last, week you know you?
Speaker 1:just they didn't have those soft skills to talk about stuff. So as time went on, I remember I would ask little questions here and there and I would say so, I'm adopted, what does that mean? And I remember my mom said well, I couldn't have kids and somebody else gave birth to you, and then me and your father adopted you. And I would ask that same question and I would get the exact same answer, because that was a safe question, right? You mean I didn't want to push the envelope.
Speaker 2:At least you had to sit down on that question, right? I had that question in there. I didn't have it.
Speaker 1:And so that was the initial and I always grew up understanding it. So then my question evolved to so does everybody know? And she said yes. So I would start asking my cousins did you know? And of course my cousins they knew, but they didn't really understand because I was part of the family.
Speaker 2:So when did how long after they dropped the bomb on you with no chaser, Did you ask the first time? What does that mean?
Speaker 1:So probably was that next day Because, like I said, when I came back in the house I was scared, I didn't know what to say. And I remember and it's interesting it's coming to me now I don't my dad was in the family room watching TV and I went in the bathroom and I was playing with the water and it was. We had an additional in the house, on the house, so the bathroom door was wooden and I'm just in the bathroom playing with the water and I remember I would put my thumb under the spigot, cut the water on it, the water would shoot out and at seven years old you don't really understand that that water has to fall somewhere.
Speaker 1:So, the door was wet and I guess my mom heard the water or saw it running under the door and she opened the door and she like lost it. What are you doing? And my dad said no, no, no, yeah. And I don't know if that was a outward cry of you know, deviance, now me being in mental health, understanding that every behavior has a function behind it. So I don't know if he viewed it as let me help him out before it becomes something that it shouldn't be.
Speaker 1:And then I remember, after that pivotal point, discussions were a little more pinpoint, not that I really got all of the information because it was still a tender subject, but that probably was one of the more important or meaningful times of my dad like pulled me to the side at a young age and was like listen, it's OK and I'm no clue because I'm just in there playing with the water, right, right. But now, like I said, from a mental health lens, it could have sent a signal off for him. So now discussions are starting to become a little more frequent, because I'm asking at this point and I said well, when did you all adopt me? And my mom said you were things. She said like a couple of days I was that I had to go to an orphanage. When I was first born I was the only boy in the orphanage. She had a picture of me. You know, first born. You know they take the naked picture of you know that stuff.
Speaker 2:Oh, you had yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I had pictures of everything, so yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So then I asked I said well, when did you, you know, when did you get me to tell me about it? She says, well, we had to go through the application. People would come to the house, interview us. They interviewed the neighbors. So I said so, everybody on the street knows I'm adopted again Seven year old, mine. And she said, yeah, they wanted to know who we were, if we were good people. I said well, where did you pick me up from? She said she didn't tell me. She said we picked you up from the orphanage. She never told me where it was at. So she said we picked you up Me, your dad, your uncle Phillip and your uncle.
Speaker 1:We drove down and your cousin Dion. So me and Dion grew up like brothers. He's four years older than me and he was so excited to have a cousin. But it was interesting because my uncle Phillip is dark skinned and my aunt Faye is light skinned.
Speaker 1:So there are pictures of my uncle Phillip holding me when they would leave out just because the four of them were always together, and my mom said the running joke was who that dark skinned man? Thank you for that light skinned man, because it was a significant difference, because they would take me everywhere because my mom was self employed so they would keep me Right. So she talked about how to drive back and I was cool in and just she fell in love with me from that moment and I said, well, I never asked her how much was it, did it cost? Like I didn't have that concept to think about it. But she would just talk about all of the interviews that they had to do. They came and looked at the bills to make sure that it was paying their bills and they came to the house and looked at the house and made sure it was a safe space. And they went to her job and interviewed her managers and things of that nature.
Speaker 2:Oh, she gave me all that.
Speaker 1:She gave me all that on that side of the coin. So her comment as I got a little bit older and we continue the discussion. She says I wanted you to know because I did not want you to find out in a negative way. So I was like what do you mean negative way? She says I don't want you to be around the family because you know everybody got that on it. They get to drinking, spill the beans. All the truth come out, right Secrets, and all the secrets, all the secrets come out. She says I did not want you to resent me because I never told you.
Speaker 1:I said really. I said you think somebody won't tell me. She says I had to cuss out one of my aunts because she got drunk and she made the comment you can get out of here. You in that white baby you adopted. And my mom said some choice words that won the whole lot of Jesus and I was just more excited to have my mama cuss in a controlled environment. That I got excited about. I was like you said that for real. She was like, yeah, y'all said it. And I was like, ok. So as time went on and I continue to, now I'm in middle school and I'm with other people and I'm recognizing that, yeah, this is my family. Everybody knows I'm adopted, but I favored my mom.
Speaker 1:And they didn't treat me any differently and I'll never forget, probably about eighth grade. Seventh to eighth grade, a friend of mine their parents separated and it floored us in the neighborhood because all of us had two parent households except for one whose father had passed away. So it was foreign, it's different, and it began me looking at family dynamics. So then my question was well, I wonder if, wherever I was pulled out from, if they have a different family, if they have X, Y or Z? So again middle school, you start going through the various thoughts, but you're also dealing with puberty, You're also dealing with trying to fit in, so you kind of suppress that and tuck it away.
Speaker 2:So, before you got to middle school, how did you feel? Can you remember how you felt? Or did you felt like you were asking me that I feel like was I ashamed, or did you feel that all of a sudden, you felt different than all your other friends?
Speaker 1:So, to answer that one, I didn't have a guilt and I think, because it was talked about in a manner that was so positive and embracing and so matter of fact, that it wasn't like a taboo shame we're not going to talk about it it was just like this is what it is, so it was an acceptance. That's how she presented it to me and I think about it. I don't think my dad never even really said anything.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they didn't normally talk. The father's normally talk.
Speaker 1:He's going back now. Later on we had discussions but growing up my mom was the one that and her and I we talked all the time. We just had that connection where at night she would have her green section, roll her hair, smoke her a cigarette and drink her some bourbon. That was her thing. Every night we used to watch Johnny Carson, quincy and all that and I would just lay at the foot of the bed and we would talk. So that was just a culture. So I didn't have a shame. My feeling was this is my family. To be honest, I really felt special because they didn't give birth to me but they loved me in spite of them.
Speaker 1:And unless I brought it up, it wasn't thrown in my face that I was adopted.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:So it wasn't a negative thing in any manner and I'll never forget I don't know how it came up. At school One of the guys made the comment about you adopted something. He tried to make it a negative and that was when I was learning the gift of gab and I had the ability to articulate jokes to hurt your feelings and need it.
Speaker 2:You got to be quick on your feet.
Speaker 1:You got to be quick on your feet. And again, I don't remember exactly what I said, but all that everybody in class was like, oh, and we ended up fighting. It was bad, but it was that protection of my space and I went for the juggler.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:So it's always been. I've always understood and known it. So then, as I got to high school and got a little older, I started to question well, where do I come from? Because we never had that side of the conversation and I will never forget the first time I asked my mom that question. Her response was the file is closed and you can't open it. Point blank, period, point blank. I was like whoa, I've never seen that side of you before.
Speaker 2:Because that's when it starts to become personal to the mother. There you go, the replacement factor, the replacement factor and that's why, in my situation, she never told us, because of exactly what you just said. So, I.
Speaker 1:I picked up on that. And then my head now again high school. You know I'm aware of life, right, but not totally aware, because if I was totally aware I would have come to the understanding that it's my right to know. That's my thinking brain, my emotional brain was I don't wanna hurt her Cause. I see the hurt that this question brought up.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So you know, every now and again in conversations I would ask certain questions and you know what do you do? You know what do you think? Do I have any siblings? And as time went on her response softened, but it was still difficult and I told her I said listen, I won't, I'm not gonna pursue, I'm not laughing at that, really, out of respect for her cause, I didn't want her to go through that hurt.
Speaker 1:Oh, I get it I understand, you know, I did not want that. It wasn't worth it to me in that moment to damage what I had, what I knew was consistent, for something that I didn't know, Cause I had no clue, Right. You know, as I got older, me and my dad talked and I said, you know, I would drop a little heads of you. You ever wondered where I came from and like if my parents are this or that. So then he said to me he says well, I know your dad played music, he had a lot of music, and I know that your mom was young, but she was very, I think he said, gifted.
Speaker 1:You know, with regards to I'm thinking from an art standpoint, I later found out that gifted was just, she had a brilliant mind for that age and just certain things, and I'll share that on the other side. But you know, that was the first time that he gave more knowledge and I'm thinking okay, well, dude, you holding on. So then he, his conversation with me, started to be a little more evolved and I said well, dad, you know you ever wanna know. He was like yeah, I wanna know too, but there's only when you ready that he put it back on me. I said okay.
Speaker 2:So Because you know he's getting your mama too. Oh, absolutely Y'all both getting your mama Absolutely.
Speaker 1:And you know he was short anyways and he ain't not that smooth. She helped dad. She helped dad, told you she drank bourbon every night. She was ready. I understand. So I do remember the, my high school graduation, my college graduation, in the excitement of everything, and my 18th and 21st birthday those four times more pronounced I had a I'm not gonna say a sadness, but a concern or a statement of.
Speaker 2:I wonder if you know the birthdays, if they, if she knows that this is my birthday or has she moved on?
Speaker 1:does she know that I graduated Right? You know? Would she be? I wanna. Would she be proud of those type of things, mm-hmm. So.
Speaker 2:Did they even remember your birthday?
Speaker 1:Right, that's a huge one that's a huge one On mother's day, you know.
Speaker 1:Did she or even did she have any other kids? Was I the only one? All of these questions are just going everywhere. So we get to Janice and I were expecting Jailer, right and we go to fill out the paperwork at the doctor's office and he asks me family history and I felt ashamed at that point. It's the only time I felt ashamed Really, and I felt ashamed because I couldn't answer the question.
Speaker 1:Right as I'm about to enter fatherhood, I'm inadequate because I don't know. I know, you know, yeah, the only thing I knew was I had sick or cell traits. But they're asking all these other things and I'm, like you, already wrestling when you're about to go down to fatherhood or break a journey, right, right, and you start off where you cannot answer the question. And it bothered me. It bothered me so much that, when we got home, janice said we're going to start the process to find your parents and I was, as an adult, still scared of my mom and I said, janice, we can't do it. Yeah, she says no, it's your right, we can do it, you know.
Speaker 2:I was like no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. She don't understand, you don't understand, Trust me that ain't what we want to do? You don't want to go down that path Right.
Speaker 1:So my wife being my wife, she got the information of you know where I was, the agency and once we got the agency.
Speaker 1:We just sat on the information Cause I still was like nope, not doing it. Because I remember that first time and I remember the conversations and that was more important to me in that moment than me finding out the information for my journey, right, wrong or indifferent. That's just where I was at. Right, that's just where I was at. Yeah, so you know, we have Jaila, and I'm still not able to answer questions and I have to change the language and say I'm adopted. I don't know my family is, and that was a safe, empowering statement for me to say you know, we had Jaila, everything's wonderful. Then we have Jordan and I'm a little more equipped this time for the journey.
Speaker 1:So, 2013, the mother passes away and we went to a family reunion in Alabama. So we ride through Margaret Alabama is where she was from in Alabama, birmingham and the whole nine. And as we're leaving out, I said well, dad, I got a question for you. I said I want to find my adopted parents. Are you okay with it? I said, because I know mom was not okay with it and I'm going to give you that same respect that I gave her. He said hell, I want to go too. The way for you to say something and I'm like, okay, I'm like dude, you could have been saying something, man, but it was that he was wanting to be my decision.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes.
Speaker 1:So once I got the green light I put Janice on it and we reached out and was able to find, like I said, the agency was Catholic Charities. And then we found out I was adopted in Hampton Roads. So then that opened up. So we should hear do they know me?
Speaker 2:Do they go to Ivy Like what's going on? I'm still in the grocery store.
Speaker 1:I'm looking at people like they look like me, they got my ears, they got you go down this huge rabbit hole because you just want some type of connection. Because, yeah, I had that family dynamic. I had the love I wasn't lacking. But it's something about your blood. Rather than when Jailer was born, it touched me in a manner that to hold and to see my first known blood, rather than what role did it play? I sat there and I wept like a baby, and even Jailer would tell you the story. I let her know, like you were my first blood brother that I met. That's a badge of honor for her. We got that type of connection.
Speaker 1:So, boom, we get the information and we run into roadblocks because the Catholic agency I mean the Catholic Charities was on Aberdeen and Hampton had closed. So all the files got sent to Richmond. So now it's just like you gotta go. This organization is holding it in. You don't know. So it's like, do you pay somebody to do this? What do you do? You just don't know and I didn't know where to go. So I'm just like, okay. So we reached out, sent an email, and I think we reached out to somebody that had gone through the process and they said, well, talk to social service. I was like, okay, that I think hit a roadblock, so then talk to somebody else. And they were like well, if you know, catholic Charities was the one send an email to them, let them know that you were an adoptee through them and you wanna start the process of finding your file. Sounds very simple, sounds logical, but when you don't know, you don't know. So we send the email and about a week later we get a response back. You have a case manager. That's pretty good. A week it was a week when the law turned around wrong. Yeah, that's very good. And then now, from the time we got the case manager until she called back with the file, probably was about probably four months. That's too good. About four or five months, that's good.
Speaker 1:And I'll never forget her office was right up the street from where I worked at in Dempe. Oh, really, because when she called she said Mr Underwood, I do have your file. It's what do they call it? It has non-identified information, but I have a file for you. So I'm like, okay, I like, where can I meet you? She says, well, I'm not at the original office, I'm in Denby, I'm working in Denby, where are you at? She gave me the address, right up the street. I said what time I can be there. I went up there and I'm walking in nervous. My hands are sweating. I don't know what I'm going to find. It's like that treasure. So I go in and she says I've never seen a file like this. So automatically I go to the negative like oh, okay, and no father's about this thick. Wow, that's amazing.
Speaker 1:And the police worker that was assigned took weekly notes throughout the whole journey. And the social worker said listen, I've reached out. She said there's a maternal grandmother that I've spoken to. There's a maternal aunt that I've spoken to. Two of them I've sent letters to grandmother, aunt and mother. She says I have to respect what mother says, because that's who is in charge of all of this. I said okay. And she said the file has not identified any information, but it's yours. She's asked for you not to reach out. She said she's not saying never, but not right now. I said okay, I just want to see what's in the file. And it's that hope. And for a split second there was a all these years. And now that I'm like found you, you want to deny me again.
Speaker 2:Right, Because I was going to ask you how did you feel at that very moment when she said that to you Right.
Speaker 1:So the excitement of this whole opportunity a little bit of the air was let out in the blue. It didn't deter me because I still wanted to know, right, and I remember the social worker saying she had talked in depth to the aunt and they wanted to reach out. But even the paternal grandmother said it's what the mother wants. So I get home and I got the file Janice is not there yet. I said listen, I got the file. She was like have you read it? I was like I can't read it, I don't know what to do with it, I don't know.
Speaker 1:So we sat in the bed when she got home and we read it and I remember being so empowered as I read it because subconsciously it answered the question of you're not a mistake, you have a story. You know what led up to that? It validated the unknown. When you walk as a and I can't speak for everybody on it for me, even though I was loved, even though there wasn't lag, there's still this unknown, there's this you know these parentheses that have nothing in it, that at times, depending on your situation, you feel with other stuff. But now I've got concrete information, you know, and I had told myself well, even if I don't give anything else, I'm fine with this. Were you really? No, okay, I wanted more, but I was preparing myself if this was all I got.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Trying to be proactive in the language. So we go through it and we're online looking because we found out the location and Emporia and all these things. And we're Googling and looking because we said something about you know the town and all these different information. We're trying to Google it. Like I said, they had blacked out the identifying information. So, mind you, it's like maybe 11 o'clock at night. Janice got home at four. So the whole time we went through the file and she's very sober, like okay, how are you feeling? Are you overwhelmed? And just trying to make sure that my mental space is positive. So something in Janice was like wait a minute, she takes the paper and put it up to the light. And she was like, okay, there's the name. Oh, wow. And we just went. It was me, her and her best friend growing up on the phone, because she's like Janice's entire private eye.
Speaker 1:Yes, and you know, sean is like this will be due in a history machine and she's gonna find all the clues and put it together. Sean is the writer now. So we start looking and we see the names and we start Googling and we go to Facebook. Of course everybody's on social media, right, and I'm like, okay, so at this age. If she was 14, then she's at this age. So maybe she's in the social media, maybe she's not. And we start looking. And then we found her name, the maiden name. So we started looking and then we found on social media a guy's profile and we were like this could be a son. He's younger than me. And we were like it's one o'clock in the morning, we're going to bed Because I had just started a new job. This is 2018. I'm like hell. I gotta go to bed because I gotta go to work tomorrow. Two hours later, sean calls back. She says I found her.
Speaker 2:She didn't go to bed. Y'all went to bed. She didn't go to bed.
Speaker 1:She says I found her, she laid down, I don't know how she did it, wow. And she had sent a message to my brothers.
Speaker 2:Why.
Speaker 1:She sent a message through messenger and was like listen, I'm not crazy. You know, at times my start out with that. She said I'm not crazy, this is who I am, but the reason I'm writing is because my brother has just found his file from his adoption and we think that you all are connected. So my brother that's a year younger than me, or 18 months. He responded and said listen.
Speaker 2:I just got off work, I'm sorry. Pause for one moment. Good, so how old was your mother when she gave birth to you? She was 15. 15. She was 15 when she was 15. And then, how old is your brother younger than you? 18 months.
Speaker 1:Okay, All right. So my brother about later was after she had me. She went back to school and met her husband. Oh, okay, so she met her husband and she was a young brother. She was a young brother and they the other. Ever since, they have had three more kids.
Speaker 2:Wow, yeah, it's interesting that that didn't deter her from moving forward in finding someone and getting married or anything, and considering all that's pretty good.
Speaker 1:So my younger brother. He says I just got off work, give me a moment to process. And now that I know him, I totally see that she had also sent a message to my other brother. His response wasn't as positive, or? Polished, oh really, and how many years so he is? I think One, two, three, 13 years between us.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay.
Speaker 1:So he's the baby. So he's the baby. His response was who the hell is this? How do you know about my family? He went in protection mode Right, right, and now that I know him, I understand.
Speaker 1:It makes sense. So, the interesting part you know social media, you look to see who's connected with who, which he did the same thing and, again, like I said, the brother is right under me, that's a year younger, he went to sleep, he slept on it. But the other one started to become social media of who I was. So we found one person that was connected, who used to work with Janice and Hampton High School. Now, mind you, this is I went to work and I came back home and Janice was like, look, I found this one person. I said give him a call, see if you know him. Sean has told us about the response from both brothers. So we got traction the whole time. I'm like yo, I don't want to like I don't know what to do. Did they know about you? So we'll get to that. Okay, we'll get to that. As we are looking on Facebook, I get a call from the social worker. The social worker says Mr Underwood, what have you done?
Speaker 2:I'm like what? I ain't doing nothing. I'm like I don't know what you're talking about.
Speaker 1:I went to work. What are you talking about? So she said I got a call from your paternal grandmother, I mean your paternal mother. She's like going to seek a lawyer. I'm slight who. She's suing Me, or you Like? Sorry for you, lady, I don't know what you're talking about.
Speaker 2:She's going to put a gag word around you, season to season, right, big time, big time she said I told you all I was not so.
Speaker 1:Once I heard that interestingly enough it was parallel to what Carlin's response was when I wanted to find so my whole mentality shifted. Now my whole mentality was I'll entertain this, but I don't want to do anything to rock the boat because it will mess up any chance that I may have. So Janice and I had conversations. I was like look, don't mess this up, because y'all want to go down this rabbit hole Exactly.
Speaker 1:So we reach out to the friend that worked with her at Hampton High and she says hey, you know, I just want to talk to you about I got a situation and it's going to sound crazy, but we just found John's file. He was adopted, oh okay, and we think that you're connected with one of the family members, the brother, he said oh what's the name?
Speaker 1:And when she told him the name, he said yeah, I know them. Those were my neighbors growing up. Oh, wow, what. And he said I can take you to the house right now, great people. And he said, now to think about it, john looks just like her. So I'm crying hearing this, because now I got an image Right. He says we've gone on vacations together. He says, yeah, I know the family, so I'm like who is that? Give me?
Speaker 2:you know just that, give me, give me, give me, give me, give me all these answers.
Speaker 1:So at that point, my brother, the youngest brother, have reached out to the same person, because the guy said he reached out to me earlier and I wasn't able to talk to him.
Speaker 1:So Janet said when you call him back, tell him you know who we are and I don't know. We not crazy. So he said I will. He said I definitely will. He said my fact. Let me call him now so you know they had their dialogue about who I was and he shared with him. He's like I worked with his wife, I've been in his class where he teaches you know a church, great family, you want to get to know them, great family. So at this point my brother that's a year younger, he says he reaches the back out. He says, hey, you know we need to talk, something like Okay, so we talked. He's like what's up, man? Hey, you don't know what to say in that situation trust me, I know.
Speaker 1:So as we began to talk, he said. He said, man, you know, I've I've known For a while and he's to share with me how he found out.
Speaker 1:Okay, so he went to North Carolina A&T play football. You know he said he came home for a while and he just happened to be here at the Hunt's house. You know I dropped the bomb and Aunt was like you know you got a brother. He's like yeah, I know I got a brother, I see him all the time. Oh, you got another brother that's older than you. He was like well, what, I was shut up and he said he thought about it and he said, grandma, when he went, I Got another brother. Go talk to your mom.
Speaker 2:Hmm.
Speaker 1:You know. So that started that discussion. So so he knew for a while. He knew, you know the younger brother had heard but didn't know.
Speaker 2:Mmm.
Speaker 1:My sister didn't find out.
Speaker 2:So you have a sister, how old? Is she?
Speaker 1:She's 24, 25 and she just found out in 2019. Wow, right, so it. And again, I can imagine Finding out at that age like who was this guy? Right? Never been a part of our thing Exactly. And you know, I'm at a point where I I guess I have respect for everybody's feelings in it and I guess in hindsight one could say that now I'm entitled to my feelings. You are, but I recognize it's not just about me. All of us have a piece to play in it.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:And I think from a young age, seeing how it impacted my mom when I would ask about it. I Don't want to be the one to invoke that hurt on others. Yeah, so when you know, my brothers told my sister Nate, whatever their motivation was, it wasn't positive, you know, and it so you. I still have another you still have.
Speaker 2:Oh, you have a met your sister and your mother didn't tell your sister. Your brother told your sister. Yeah, yeah, okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you know, it's like once you put the toothpaste out the tube, you can't put it back in.
Speaker 2:But does she? Does she want to know you?
Speaker 1:I don't know. Well, you know, I haven't had that discussion, I haven't had that dynamic with her. It's more of a point of I Wanted to have a conversation and get to know biological mom got it from the beginning I Didn't know.
Speaker 1:I didn't even know I had a sister. I know I had a brother and it's time with on my brother's, like, yeah, you know, you got another brother and a sister. And I was like, oh, okay, gotcha. So I met the. Which one did I meet? First been the year younger brother. We would talk all the time. But then the younger brother, he and I talked and we met and we went out to district 41. It was so crazy because Janice and the girls were in the car and I was like, who can I call it? Be in the parking lot, just in case, because he had already popped off. No, I don't know right.
Speaker 1:So I had some some folks out posted around me when the safe space. The bartender was a good friend of mine. Okay, I let her know. Look, this one's gonna do Don't know, for she's like.
Speaker 1:I got everybody and we talked and he explained his side from a protection standpoint which I totally understood and respected, right, and I told him. I said, look, man, I don't, I'm not coming for anything, I'm just just want to know. And I said I would ask questions about biological mom and His thing was that's on her. When she's ready to do it. She'll do, but she's not gonna stop me from having a relationship, right. So I appreciated that.
Speaker 1:And then there was a aunt who was 11. She's only 11 years older than me, so she remembers when biological mom came to Hampton Rose to have me and the whole, and she reached out to me through ancestry calm because I was like I'm not getting anywhere here, right, let me do this. Yeah, we connected and we talked and she said she said I have been praying for this opportunity. So I was like, wow, again little bits and pieces of the story, yeah. And I ended up meeting her Probably six or seven months after I got the file got you, so I'm sure she was able to Give shed light on quite a bit.
Speaker 1:Oh, she dropped all, all she oh.
Speaker 2:She held on back nothing, oh, okay.
Speaker 1:Nothing. So, you know, ask her. I'd be like, hey, so this, is you like no baby. That ain't what. This is what happened. I was like, oh okay, oh wow. And again I had to recognize, all right, is Biological mom gonna be upset cuz I'm talking to her, mm-hmm, but then that's my right to talk to her. I don't know how to operate in this space, right? So she said I'm coming down to your church. So her and her daughter that came down the church and we went out to eat.
Speaker 1:And again it's that Opportunity to connect to something and it's like, oh my god, that's blood, right that's really your family, and you know Janice being very cautious, she was like, listen, we don't know them, we just got to make sure and be sober in this and I'm like we know that whatever, whatever. Exactly you know, and it the blessing was that they were a good character and so you know. So it was positive. And come to find out where my aunt lived was close to my cousin who I grew up with.
Speaker 1:That Like we grew up like brothers, yes, yes my cousin's son and and her nephew went to high school together, so it's a lot of connections. As I'm talking to my brother, he and I played against each other in high school. Wow, because we will go up and scrimmage that high school and we again. It's really yeah.
Speaker 2:Can you imagine it? You guys probably check this out.
Speaker 1:Biological mom worked in Richmond at Blue Cross, blue Shield, so now I'm like so did she know who I was and why?
Speaker 2:not now. She didn't watch me the whole time, right.
Speaker 1:So that whole dynamic of just peeling back the layers is, it's not challenging, it is humbling.
Speaker 1:Yeah it's humbling. So Fast forward. I've met both my brothers. Janice, you know, as metal, the girls haven't met them, but they know I talked to them. We talk on the phone, you know. We established a positive relationship. I met her, I talked to her. Still haven't talked to they. Come to find out.
Speaker 1:One of my mom's good friends went to school and grew up with biological mom. Hmm, so again, social media. I'm like cuz, I know, now know biological mom's name, mm-hmm. So I was like hey, got a question. She's like what you need baby? I said you know I was adopted, right? She's like yeah, I said I think you went to school with my biological mom. She said who? And when I told her she was like oh, I do know them. Yes, oh, wow.
Speaker 1:And I was like I said listen. I said she doesn't want to be Involved and I said so I'm not asking you to go talk to her. I said that's not what I want. I said I'm just trying to get just basic information. She was like okay, okay, anything I can do to help, just let me know. So it's been these Safeguards or these catalysts at different times to help. So I was bold, like I'm gonna set a friend request on social media to biological mom I. But I wouldn't do it, well, cuz I, you know, she was like no, don't do it. I was like, okay. So this year, as a matter of fact, my father begins to take a turn and I'm just like emotionally everywhere and I was like you know what? Screw it center for me.
Speaker 2:But hold on, we don't want to really get into that part yet.
Speaker 1:I'm not gonna get into that part, but what I'm saying is and we talk about the reveal piece, because now In my conversations I still got the big Joker that I've somewhat put out there. Okay, like she hasn't revealed, you know, except for anything like that. But I'm positioning myself for opportunities Because I'm still, like you said you go back to that young person.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're a person.
Speaker 1:You want to Know and find out. Yes, so my whole adoption journey of when I found out spanned from seven years old to 47. Wow, so that whole time? No, sorry, let me back up From seven years old to, like, 45 years old. Okay and then, from 45 to 47, that journey of having pieces of the Rubik's Cube. You just can't put it together.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yes.
Speaker 1:So that's that's have some information. Right there and I want to get rid of peel the sticker pieces off and put them back on, but it would have put it together right you would have put it together right so it.
Speaker 1:The journey For me was one eves and flows, emotional struggles, wrestling but I have think I'm the better for it. I Think that I've walked it in a manner where I've been respectful for everybody else Right, because I never wanted anybody to say that I caused a problem intentionally, and I get that, I Understand that, but you also have to make sure that you're whole too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, I'm saying because this is a lot, even though you've known since you were seven. I Get that right. But still, as you get closer to you, knowing more and the lots being revealed, it, it gets you in a different mindset. True, because now, all right, I definitely understand what adoption is and I definitely need the answers for how all that came about. And I don't need it from other people, right, I Need it from that one person, that's right. Dad Was a person who put my life onto this path, what you're grateful for.
Speaker 1:When the social worker asked me because I had to write a letter, I had to write it. She said write a letter of your intentions that I will give to the family. She said I don't know. This is in the beginning. She says I don't know if she's still alive, I don't know anything, but is there anything that you want to say? And I wrote a letter and the first thing I said was I want to say thank you For giving birth to me, thank you for choosing to Give me up for adoption so I can have a chance at life.
Speaker 2:On a flip side, the Commonwealth is not that bad Because New Jersey, yeah, I had to write no letter, you know. Plus, your story is different because your mother was younger and then back then they sent him away. That wasn't the case for my mother. She already had two kids, she was married, she was 19. So I don't have a file. Mine was one page not identifiable information, two pages, you know, not identifiable information. It was a summary of what she claims that she didn't say. But who else would get that information? But okay, so that's completely different and each state is different.
Speaker 1:Yeah, each state is different.
Speaker 2:Each state is different and how the adoption came about is different. So you just never know, because in New Jersey all firsts are sealed. Firsts are sealed when you're adopted. It just passed legislation, maybe.
Speaker 1:So it's sealed to a point when you can't get it open.
Speaker 2:Correct the only way. Well, you can now, okay, but when I first started you? Well, you don't need. Not only do you have to petition the court anymore, but the law was before you would have to either be birth mother or the adoptive parents can petition the court, oh wow.
Speaker 1:So you, as the adopter, you don't even have the right.
Speaker 2:Not even an adult adoptee. I have no rights, but now we can. Okay, but when I started looking, I was able to get not identifiable information. Okay, but I couldn't get my original birth certificate. Did you get it? I did? Okay, that's another story, right?
Speaker 1:Right, that's a whole different conversation. That's a whole different conversation, yeah, but that's, that's my journey and how I found out, and it's still. You know answers to be, questions to be asked. You know answers to be revealed. I'm still in my journey. The blessing is that a lot of the players are still there.
Speaker 2:That is a blessing, right, that is a blessing.
Speaker 1:Biological mom is still alive. My biological father has passed, so I don't have a lot of answers in that regard. Do you know that for sure that he's passed away?
Speaker 2:Yes, okay, we'll talk about that one in a different, because it could be allegedly passed away if they don't want the person.
Speaker 1:Well, I've done some research and I saw the obituary. Okay, you know, it was it. So you've seen facts. I've seen facts and you know, to look at them, I'm like, yeah, I can see it. And then, yeah, we'll see.
Speaker 2:Okay, all right. So from your journey, what could, what takeaways could you, you know, give someone else that might be in the same position that you are in?
Speaker 1:I always say the first thing is really come to terms with if you want to know the truth Because, as much as I was excited, you know what happens on the flip side if you get information that you don't want to hear, what happens if you're rejected. So you have to come to terms with the reality that you anything may happen, Because what would have happened if birth mom says that ain't never happened, Right? So now you have to deal with that rejection of not being validated, Right? You know what I'm saying. So you have to be real sober in pursuing on this journey. Number two, I would say seek wise counsel about how to do it, because there are a lot of entities that will take your money and because it is an emotional journey, you'll pay and you don't necessarily have to pay. You know it's your right. You just have to know the processes for the states and things of that nature.
Speaker 1:Do your research. But because it's so emotional, you'll make an emotional decision that you don't have to. So you know, be prepared for the journey, be prepared for what may happen, the rejection, do your research. And then, number three, I would say whatever the outcome, whatever the journey, seek some counsel, seek some professional counseling, because knowing what we know now is a level of trauma.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know, because that normalcy that you've had for however long, when it is interrupted and redefined, it's a change Right, good, bad or indifferent it's a change. And going to somebody from a professional lens to help you identify, understand and manage the change is beneficial Because it's not always a negative, it's not always a positive, sometimes it's just the facts. And now you're left to navigate this space. I would just encourage you know, really seeking out counseling and getting our culture. We look at counseling from a negative standpoint Because we want afforded opportunities. Two, and I just think over time, as mental health has become more relevant in our society, it's become more normalized to go to counseling and seek assistance.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:You know there used to be negative connotations of you're going to see a shrink and all these different negative things, Whereas now it should be looked at the same as you get a tune up on your car.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's more acceptable now, yeah, more acceptable. A lot becomes more acceptable after 2020.
Speaker 1:You ain't lying, because that was traumatic for everybody.
Speaker 2:Yes, so it is definitely more acceptable. Yeah, I'm a strong believer in counseling. I'm a advocate as well. I'm an advocate for it as well.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, that's my journey.
Speaker 2:Wow, that was amazing, amazing, and that's from a seven year old.
Speaker 1:Right, that's from a seven year old and that's what I can remember. I'm sure there were other things. Yeah, that took place, you know, and as I continue to share it and just walk in this truth, I'm sure more stuff will be revealed, but those were the highlighted blueprints or indicators for this journey, for my story.
Speaker 2:Wow. So you can see, we both have that commonality of being adopted, but our stories are totally different, totally different. Everybody's story is not the same, but we understand everyone's journey.
Speaker 1:That's right. We respect everyone's journey. That's the key you got to respect and embrace the journey.
Speaker 2:Yes, that's the key. So that's it for this episode of so I'm Adopted. Stay tuned for our next one. I think we're going to I don't know what we're going to talk about next time.
Speaker 1:I mean, you know we will see.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we'll see. It's organic, the discussions are organic and, you know, the main thing is that we're still in that place where we talked about that acceptance, because, you know, we gave the journey, but the emotional responses, you know, your emotional response when you first found out was different from when you didn't know it. It's like you're going in this direction, but then for me, at seven years old versus 47 years old, you know, and then as you find out more information, you know, do you get angry, are you happy, are you indifferent? Right, you know? Have you suppressed it to a point where that's not even something I talk about because I need to stay in this space? Yep.
Speaker 2:And next time we're going to talk about when we first met our birth mothers. Yeah, that's a that's going to be good. Yeah, that's, that's a story in itself, all by itself, all by itself, and we finally met our birth mothers. So thanks for watching. I hope this has encouraged you and given you hope in some way, and until next time.
Speaker 1:So we are adopted. Thank you for listening to the so I'm Adopted podcast. We hope that this was informative and educational. You can follow us on Instagram and Facebook at so I'm Adopted. Also, subscribe to our YouTube page so I'm adopted. And again, thank you for listening and until next time, make the choice to begin your healing journey.